Streaming Royalties Deep Dive: What Creators Need to Know with Jamie Dominguez and Andrew Wetzel

Understanding where your royalties come from is the first step to making sure you collect every dollar you've earned. In this episode of Taking Care of Your Music Business, The MLC’s Jamie Dominguez sits down with Andrew Wetzel — musician, label owner of Oxide Records, music publisher, artist manager, and co-founder of the pioneering band Attack! Attack!. This conversation breaks down the science of streaming royalties and demystifies how your music actually gets paid. 

Andrew and Jamie unpack the "Holy Trinity" of royalty payments — your PRO, The MLC, and SoundExchange — and clear up the crucial difference between mechanical and performance royalties. They explain why having a publishing entity doesn't mean you're collecting your mechanicals, why IPI numbers and accurate metadata matter, and how to track your splits from day one. Whether you're a songwriter, performer, or independent creator, you'll walk away with practical steps to clean up your data and collect everything you're owed.  

Watch all our full episodes on YouTube here and learn more about The MLC and our mission to ensure songwriters and music publishers receive their mechanical royalties from streaming and download services in the U.S. accurately and on time here. 

Transcript

[00:00:00] Welcome to Taking Care of Your Music Business, brought to you by the Mechanical Licensing Collective, also known as the MLC. In this podcast, we'll dive deep into the heart of the music industry, exploring how to get paid as a creative, making sure that you're receiving all the royalties you deserve.

We'll also dive into building a sustainable career, sharing strategies and best practices that creators can use to achieve long-term success. Join us as we bring you interviews with top songwriters and music executives who share their personal journeys and professional wisdom on thriving in the business, all while making a living.

So get ready for some real talk about navigating the music industry. Don't forget to subscribe so you never miss an episode, and be sure to catch all of our full episodes on YouTube Welcome to Taking Care of Your Music Business, brought to you by the MLC. I'm your host, Jamie Dominguez. If you've ever wondered where your streaming royalties actually come from, or worried you might be leaving money on the table, this episode is for you.

Today, I'm joined by Andrew Wetzel, [00:01:00] a musician, label owner, music publisher, artist manager, and advocate who's been navigating this industry since he was a teenager. Andrew founded the pioneering band Attack! Attack! He signed his first record deal at 19 and quickly learned that being an artist means being a business owner, whether you're ready for it or not.

After years of touring and leading his band, Andrew founded Oxide Records in 2020 and later launched Oxide Music Publishing. His passion for catalog management and intellectual property has made him an expert in how music gets created, delivered to market, and monetized. We sat down at the MLC's office in Nashville to break down the science of streaming royalties and how creators can make sure they're getting paid what they've earned.

Let's get into it. Here's my conversation with Andrew Wetzel. Hey, hey. Thank you everybody, uh, for being here. My name is Jamie Dominguez. I'm with the MLC. Um, I'm National Director of Industry Relations. I'm actually based in New York City, and I [00:02:00] got out of the blizzard to come here, thank God. Super excited.

Um, but yeah, it's, uh... We're gonna break down a lot of information, and we have the amazing Andrew here, who is- who wears a lot of hats, but, uh, first and foremost, he was a creator. How many songwriters do we have in the audience? Okay. Publishers, managers, anyone on the business side? Okay, cool. So everyone's gonna learn something valuable because we're gonna unpack a lot and, and mainly we're talking about, um, streaming and how to turn streams into money, and that's the, that's the secret sauce that everybody wants to know, right?

It's a good scam. Um, he said it, not me. Um, so yeah, the title, we're talking about deep dive, collecting your streaming royalties. Um, how many of you are MLC members? [00:03:00] Okay, there's a few. How many of you know what the MLC is? Okay. So just to break it down really quickly, the MLC is a nonprofit organization. We were formed in 2020 after they passed the Music Modernization Act.

Um, and we are here to make sure you get paid your streaming mechanical royalties. So if you're a songwriter and you have any music streaming on a platform, you are entitled to receive royalties, um, on the publishing side for any of your recordings that are, are streaming. So that is our job. We are here to collect the money from the streaming services and pay that back to you, and the cool thing about it is that we are completely nonprofit.

The streaming services actually fund us, so we're not taking a commission. We're not taking a percentage of your royalties. We're paying you 100% of your royalties. And, um, yeah, since, since 2021, which was our [00:04:00] first fully operational year, we've paid over, uh, 4 billion in streaming mechanical royalties to rights holders, and we have about 79,000 plus members now.

Um, but that's not even scratching the surface 'cause we know there's a ton more, uh, songwriters out there that we need to find. So that's kind of why we're here. We wanna make sure everybody's aware and, um, and we're sharing the information and, um, sort of helping to build the community around it. So, um, let me just get into Andrew over here.

Um, Andrew, you s- first and foremost, you're a songwriter, creator, started the band Attack! Attack! um, when you were in high school, but you've been a musician since you were, like, 10. Mm-hmm. Um, you got signed to your first record deal right out of high school, right after you graduated. Yeah. You were 19 and got [00:05:00] thrust into all the business aspects of it, you know, and, like, all...

managing all of the business, which is kind of a lot for a 19-year-old. Um, and then fast-forward to 2020, you formed Oxide Records and Oxide Publishing. Yeah. Um, so let's start at the beginning. You were really young when you started. Yes. So at 19, what do you know about the music business at that point? Um, well, nothing.

Aside from playing drums. Yeah, literally nothing. Um- So being, you know, in high school, and this is also deep in the MySpace era, you know, for those of you who remember the good old days where you could get hundreds of millions of streams and get paid absolutely nothing for it. Pretty sick. Thanks, Justin Timberlake, for carrying the torch on that one.

Um, sorry, I'll keep the commentary to a minimum. Uh, yeah, I mean, just kind of seeing bands blow up on the internet and, and seeing things change [00:06:00] really drastically from how they've been operating since, you know, the inception of recorded music and the recorded music industry was, you know, crazy and exciting.

And so one of the first things of, you know, diving into this was, you know, I'm graduating high school, and I was in jazz band and, you know, playing all over, doing that kind of stuff with the school, and, like, that was cool. Um, and then, you know, start my own band. We start playing around town, and then we draw the circle a little bit bigger, and then we're playing in other cities and doing everything else, and before long, you know, we get a little, little offer from Rise Records, and that was the place that we wanted to be 'cause, you know, I'm from Columbus, Ohio, and so we had bands like Hawthorne Heights and The Devil Wears Prada and, like, a, a lot of stuff like that, bands that we really looked up to.

And so to be able to enter the stage, no pun intended, alongside them was extremely exciting. And I remember thinking at that time of... You know, I'm gonna be totally honest with you. I had no aspirations of going to college. I didn't care about any of that stuff, and I kinda was in a, [00:07:00] a bit of a crisis myself of, like, well, high school's wrapping up.

Now what do I do? And so I got really lucky that, you know, music opened up doors for me, and I was able to look at that, and to be quite frank, it was terrifying. I mean, it was really scary to look at that and to feel... You know, for artists in the room, I'm sure a lot of you can sympathize with this. It's really weird to go from being just a person that your friends and family know to suddenly being highly visible, you know, all across mediums of entertainment and for people to observe every single thing you do.

And that was definitely a challenge being a child and having, like, all of my life from 19 forward just on YouTube and on the internet for everybody to see. And, uh, looking back, uh, it definitely gives me some anxiety to think about that. But, you know, pressing forward into... We went on our first- We recorded our first record.

I graduated in June, recorded an album with Joey Sturgis, who's a client of mine now, which is [00:08:00] crazy. Uh, we recorded our first album in July, and then by that September, we went on our first tour, which was 13 weeks long in a van and trailer. It was the first time I'd ever, like, left home alone. And, uh, the youngest guy in my band was 13, so some of the guys were still going to high school, like, on laptops in the back of the van, and that was extremely funny.

And then I was the only one with a driver's license, so I drove constantly. And, uh, I was hospitalized multiple times, uh, because as it turns out, a healthy, balanced diet is not Java Monster and Camel Lights Don't do that. That's not gonna work out. You're gonna get scarlet fever. Literally, that's what happened to me- Wow

in Buffalo. That's crazy. Yeah. And, uh, this- the doctor was like, "I don't even know how you did this. This doesn't exist." And I was like, "That's cool, man. I woke up at 10:00 AM not feeling good, so this has all just been a today thing." So Wow. So yeah. Um, the pressure and the [00:09:00] stress of having to enter that role and kind of feel responsible for everything was a lot.

And fortunately for me, um, I've always had a very curious mind about all this stuff, like the business side of things actually interests me just as much as the creative side. And so that's been really helpful, and I just was asking a lot of questions. And we were just talking earlier, it was one of the first books that I bought in probably 2009 was, I think it's Everything You Need to Know About Music Publishing by Randall Wixson.

And- Which is, like, a really... If, if you ever get this book, and I happen to have this book because, uh, you know- I feel like it's, it just comes with the territory ... but it's, like, so deep into the publishing weeds. Like, probably a little too much if you just want a high-level understanding and... But yeah, I mean, it's, like, really, really deep dive in the weeds.

Did you understand what you were reading? Actually, yes. Okay. Uh, and I really attribute that to the fact [00:10:00] that at that time my brain was devoid of most knowledge. Yeah. So there was a lot of space for that. It was, like, the only thing that my life revolved around and I cared about, so it was actually pretty easy to pick up for me.

Okay. You know, the... He di- there's, like, whole chapters on, like, the PA and SA copyrights and all this stuff, and I was like, "Cool, these are words that I understand." W- did you... Did all this responsibility fall on your shoulders because you were the oldest in the band? Yeah. It was partially that, and then it was also partially I volunteered to take it on.

Okay. Because you, you happen to have that brain where- Yeah ... you can, you can do both, which a lot of creators don't. Yeah. But, um, they're lucky that they had you. Um, was there... C- can you sort of, like, frame a moment or, or a, a... when you realized kind of how important, um, the royalties, rights, publishing side of things were in terms of, you know, achieving longevity and success and being able to [00:11:00] sustain, like, make, make a living out of, out of what you love?

I, an important little detail here is that my dad was an attorney, and he's now a judge. So also- Okay ... gotta keep very careful on the commentary. I'm just kidding. But, you know, uh, growing up with an attorney, that really helped a lot because just being around somebody that is conditioned for the, you know, just being super methodic about reading and understanding and whatever.

Like, we, we went over the record contract that I got. Actually, we had several, and we reviewed all of them. And I mean, neither of us really under... He's a lawyer, but y- the way that we put stuff on paper in the music industry is a lot different than- Right ... like an oil and gas deal, which was something else that he would do.

But there were royalties involved, so that, those words were the same. Um, but yeah, just kind of trying to piece through that. You know, we had lots of really in-depth discussions. So I mean, right out of the gate, I definitely spent w- more time reading through the agreements that we [00:12:00] got than probably anybody else does.

And, you know, I tried to understand, you know, theoretically, like if we put a certain amount of money through this, where does it go and how does it end up? Mm-hmm. And so that was helpful. That was a helpful way to kind of visualize, you know, when I sign this deal, what actually happens? You know, at what point, if we make $1,000 or $100,000 or a million dollars, like, where is it supposed to go, and how does it get accounted and everything else?

And you know, at that time, there were still lots of physical sales. Streaming did not exist the way that it does now, and so that was definitely a lot more straightforward because to the mechanical side of things, it was, well, there's a record of how many albums were produced, and so there's... To be able to calculate your mechanical royalties is pretty straightforward- Yeah

because it's just based off of what did the record label press and ship, and then finding the sales reports. And so that was, you know, just kind of like a singular place, basically. It's like units sold- Yeah ... basically. Nowadays, it's every DSP, every place. You know, there's [00:13:00] performance royalties, there's neighboring rights, there's mechanical royalties.

Mm. You know, it's, it's pretty bewildering at this point. Was there a lesson you learned the hard way that sort of pushed you into high gear and, and made you change how you were, how you did everything? Yeah, all of them. Yeah, every... I feel like every lesson was hard, um, but that's kind of, I guess that's the way life is, you know?

The most important lessons in your life are highlighted by the pain that you experience. That's what kinda makes it set home. And I don't mean that in, in a garish way. That is just, we, we remember pain. We remember mistakes way more than we remember victories and pleasure. And so that's, that was one of those ones where it's like, oh man, we signed this deal, and these things happen, and, you know, the band starts to grow, and it's like, hmm, kinda wish we'd Maybe pushed a little harder on this point or that point or whatever Mm-hmm.

Um, and you can get into that and you can always go back and, and get into the what ifs, but the reality is you're always just kind of negotiating with [00:14:00] whatever perception of value you have to negotiate with. So everybody signs a deal when they're nobody and then looks back when they're somebody and goes, "Man, I really wish we'd gotten- Yeah

you know, 40% instead of 16." But it's like, well, did you have the ability to command that? Yeah. Or is that just kind of where you were at? Yeah, hindsight's always 20/20 as they say, right? For sure. Um, h- so how much time do you actually spend on, I mean, do you, do you still write and perform and- I do ... and, and record?

So how much time do you spend doing the creative stuff versus all the business stuff that you have n- on your plate now with your two companies? Um, I spend Now it's a moving target constantly. And, you know, I just wrapped up my last tour in September, and I think I'm probably gonna take a break from that for a while because, you know, this other side has really started to take off.

And, you know, I kind of feel that I'm needed more [00:15:00] there than I am in the creative space. I've spent a lot of time being a creator and a writer. And now being in Nashville and being able to work with tons of other artists, um, you know, Reese and Josh are here. It's two guys that I work with. Um, and I published both of them, and Reese has joined my record label.

And so we've written a couple of songs together recently. So I've found that, you know, I don't have to be in a band to continue to scratch that creative itch. You know, I can dive in and, you know, give my unsolicited opinions on occasion if I feel like it, and if it turns out to be sick, then we print it, and if it's bad, then we just kind of don't talk about it again.

But, uh, yeah, I mean, at this point, I think I'm primarily in the business, but it's definitely a priority for me to stay creative because, you know, it's always gonna be a piece of me. Mm-hmm. And it's extremely important, and that's a thing that I can't, I can't let that go away. Yeah. Um, okay, so let's, let's get into the [00:16:00] nitty-gritty and talk money.

Yeah. Um, because a lot of people have streaming activity. Mm-hmm. We talked about this, you know, earlier, but they don't actually see that turn into dollars. Mm-hmm. Um, but there's just simple things that you can do to make that happen, right? So, okay, I'm assuming all of the songwriters in here have music streaming, yes?

Okay. How many people are receiving checks regularly? Okay. That's too small of a... It was, like, a very timid hand raise. It's like, "Mm, I think," but it's like $5, so does that count? Yeah. Um, it does count because those, that... The whole point is that it all, it all adds up. It does. Right? Um, okay, so let's, let's just do a little, um, copyright 101 so that, um, we're all, we're clear about what we're, what we're talking about.

Mm-hmm. So there's a few ways that you can generate money from [00:17:00] streams So on the, on the song side, which is the, the composition. In copyright law, they refer to it as the composition or the song, which is, you know, the lyrics, the melody. Um, and there are two types of royalties that those can generate.

There's performance royalties and mechanical royalties. So your PRO, ASCAP, BMI, SESAC in the United States, SOCAN in Canada, so forth and so on, they're gonna pay you your performance royalties, um, for your song or your composition. And then on the mechanical side, you now have the MLC. Um, so the MLC will pay you for, on the publishing side, for any, any songs you have streaming on a platform.

Mechanical royalties is a term that, that basically refers to the reproduction and distribution of a song. So back in the day, it used to be just vinyl and CDs, cassettes, but now- The occasional music video on television ... the occa- yeah, back in the day when, [00:18:00] RIP MTV, right? Um, but yeah. So now that includes streams, which is why the Music Modernization Act was passed.

Um, and then you have money that's generated from the recor- the sound recording, which is also referred to as the master side, right? Um, so on the master side, you can receive, um, money for performances, for digital performances from SoundExchange, and SoundExchange is paying, um, the performers on a track, so on a sound recording.

So if you are, um, the singer, the performer of the song, a, a guitarist, background vocalist, you are entitled to receive royalties generated, um, for a digital performance of a sound recording. So those are, those are ... I like to call that the Holy Trinity of, like, the, the three places that pay you, um, and that you need to be registered with.

So your PRO, your, the [00:19:00] MLC, and SoundExchange. Um, but tonight we're really focused on streaming mechanicals, which is what the MLC does. But it's, it's kinda like we have to go into all of it to really understand how it all falls into place. For sure. Um- And if I could jump in here for a second. Yeah. Um, how many writers in here have a publishing entity with their PRO?

Okay, cool. And so one thing I wanna point out, 'cause this is a thing that comes up a lot, is, you know, often when I talk to writers and artists, they'll say, "Well, I have a publishing company," you know, on BMI or ASCAP. You know, with ASCAP you have to have it. With BMI, if you don't have it, it will automatically fold into your BMI account, so you'll get both sides of those performance royalties, which is like thanks, but also just- Yeah

kinda making this way more complicated. But just because you have a publishing entity with your PRO does not mean that you are receiving, you know, you're [00:20:00] not getting mechanicals, right? You're getting the publishing side of your performance royalties because the way they're set up is half of it is paid directly to the writer and half of it filters through your publishing entity.

Um, so that's a common misconception where a lot of writers that I talk to think that they've been covered, and then they, like, won't believe me when I tell them like, "Oh, no, you're, you're not getting any of your digital mechanicals." And they go, "But I have a publishing company." I go, "But you don't." Mm-hmm.

Yeah, you kinda do. You got part of it, right? And, you know, good on you for, for going after it like that, but it's, you know, by the time we cover the neighboring right side and every- it's like, buddy, this is getting... It gets out of control, and it's very hard to realize, like, how do you conceptualize, I wrote a song and I made a recording and I put it on DistroKid.

Why is the revenue split across all these different things in all these different territories? So I just wanna call that out because that's- Yeah ... definitely one that I run into a lot of. Just because you have a publishing company with your PRO does... [00:21:00] that has nothing to do with your mechanical royalties.

Mm-hmm. That's, that's absolutely right. So let's, yeah, let's actually walk through the life of a song. Mm-hmm. Um, you know, from, from creation to stream to, to, uh, payout. Um, you know, like, let's just take an Oxide Records release and- Mm-hmm ... and go through that sort of, um, path, right? So, so a song's written. Um, what happens from there?

That's a trick question. Yeah, I just- I'm leading, I'm leading the question, but basically what I, what I want the the point I'm trying to make is, what's the most important thing... You're in a room- Mm-hmm ... with, with your band. Mm-hmm. You all contributed to the writing of the song. It's written. What needs to happen?

Okay, so before we get to the multi-hour conversation about marketing and who's gonna do the content and all this other stuff- Yes ... you know. Yes. But- We're not even talking [00:22:00] about- No ... any of that. No. Yeah. Well, God, I never wanna talk about it again- ... but I'm going to. Ev- I did four hours today. Um, so literally, uh, when you make the song, okay, priority number one here is who's in the room and who's getting what.

So typically here in Nashville, you know, if you got four people in a room writing a song, it's 25%, right? We just generally do things evenly. It makes it easier. I know LA, they kinda like to make things really complicated and say, like, "Well, I wrote the hook, and the hook's really important," and whatever it is.

That sucks. I think we just... Don't invite people that aren't gonna contribute at least equally somehow, and also, come on, don't- Let's, let's be reasonable here. So who are all these people? And, you know, make sure you note the day. Typically, what I want to see afterwards is, you know, if Josh and Reese do a song together, it's like, all right, cool.

It's 50/50. Sweet. Got your IPI numbers. Got your, all your writer information registered with [00:23:00] ASCAP and BMI respectively. And- Can we talk... Really quick, can you, can you talk about what the IPI number is and why it's so important? So the IPI number is gonna be your unique identifier. It's like your Social Security for them.

That's the only one like it. And so you can enter your name into stuff, but you know, what we have come, what the MLC has come to find out, picking up the pieces from Harry Fox, is when you're trying to match this data at this scale, it's crazy. So the more specific the data we have to deliver, the better their system can match and direct royalties to where they belong.

So we wanna be very thorough about the registration process and make sure... Like, I wanna see your name exactly as it appears on your PRO account, and they're different. Sometimes they start with, like, last name, first name, middle name, or, like, it's a whole thing, so the more uniform we can get that with your IPI number, and if you have a publishing company, its name and its IPI number, that will allow the input from my side on the publishing to be super [00:24:00] precise.

And that way, once it does get distributed, it can match really easily with the information they have. 'Cause it's kinda like an IRS thing. It's like, all right, I'm gonna tell you something, and you already know something, but you're not gonna tell me what you know, so we're just gonna kinda guess, and hopefully at the end we have the same number and then nobody gets in trouble.

Yeah. I mean, th- that's the whole thing is that once, um, you know, when you're registering a song, your name, your actual legal name doesn't... I mean, it matters, but what it, what it really boils down to is your IPI number. Mm-hmm. Because believe it or not, there's, there are other Andrew Wetzels in the world.

Yeah. And, uh, so you can't just go by that as a unique identifier, right? Mm-hmm. Even though you are truly unique. I go by Wetzel. But if you start throwing Wetzel in there, I promise you Coe Wetzel is gonna show up before me because he's a little bit more successful, and we just, we don't, we... let's just stick with the number.

Yeah. So, um- The splits, I mean, do you have advice, um... I, I get this a lot. Like, people are always, you know, weary about talking about splits and- Mm-hmm ... [00:25:00] do you have an approach for that? Like, is there, is there a democratic way to, uh, go about it that, that doesn't feel weird when you're in a creative environment?

Yeah. I mean, listen, when you're, when you're working with creative partners, you're establishing a relationship, ideally one that is going to be very long-term and very fruitful. But it really is kind of up to the room needs to come to a consensus before you leave. And in this regard, there aren't really any wrong answers.

Uh, I will certainly give my opinion if it's asked, and I am just a firm believer in if we all take time to show up to this place to create this thing... Like, listen, I'm not, I'm not on my A game every single day, and neither are any of you, but it's like we all made the same amount of time to show up. And usually, like someone usually has the idea that kind of forms the foundation of everything, but that doesn't necessarily make it their song because you can say one thing and then all of a sudden it takes a brand-new shape that it never would've gotten [00:26:00] before.

And so I tend to, you know, encourage and focus on making the process as collaborative and as fair as possible. Mm. And if you can't reasonably negotiate splits in a room with people, m- maybe you should reconsider your career in this business because if you can't get over the simplest hurdle here, I promise you the rest of it's gonna get really hard.

I mean, you're all partners, right, essentially is that's, that's the- You are ... that's the approach. Um, okay, so you agree on the splits. Next, what happens? Bef- ideally before you release a song, you need to make sure the songs are registered with all these peop- all these organizations that are gonna pay you.

So- Yeah ... that's kind of what we were speaking about earlier. But, um, yeah, is that, is that typically your next step? Yeah. So, you know, I know for most of us, uh, we probably can't repeat in public a lot of the working titles of the tracks that we work on, and certainly those titles don't make it to the end of the process.

So having a system to track what [00:27:00] your working titles are to your final title is really important. And so that's a big one of if you have something that is just a working title, make sure that you designate that and be like, "Hey, this is what we're calling this right now, but this is like not what it's gonna be" because for a lot of publishers, they'll, they'll just register, you know, whatever the working title is right away.

Um, but it's gonna be up to you to follow back up and say, "Hey, this is scheduled for release and here is the final copy." For this, otherwise they're just gonna run with this working title- Mm ... and that may never have anything to do with what the final thing is, and it may never end up that way. So it's, it's important to kinda keep track of your crazy, ridiculous working titles, and to make sure that when the artist, whether it's you or, you know, your buddy or somebody else, that there's communication about, "Hey, this ridiculous title thing that we did is now called Among Us, and it's scheduled for release on this day, and here's the ISRC code," right?

If we can [00:28:00] track that, that's really important because that's a foundation of the MLC's matching, is making sure that you have all of that metadata correct as it appears in Spotify's database and whatever. Mm-hmm. So that's one that I stick to. And, you know, for most publishers, they want to see a date of creation.

And typically when you finish a session, right, you're gonna bounce a, a working rough, and then we're gonna burn a hole in that sucker for, like, at least a week afterwards. So having that in there too really helps so that if we don't get the title later, and it's like, "Hey, we've got this, you know, Hockey Boys 37, you know, 69, 420 track.

I have no idea what that's supposed to be called now, but we have the work tape for it," then you can at least listen to it and go, "Oh, it's this song, and that's called The Stars Around Us." You know what I mean? That's a good tip. I like that. Yeah. Um, okay, so songs are registered, everything's delivered to the, the [00:29:00] DSPs.

Um, you're generating millions and millions of streams. The DSP, hopefully all the metadata's correct, and the DSP then sends all of that, uh, they report all of that information and pay that money to the MLC. And then the MLC pays you. Mm-hmm. Um, that's how it's supposed to work. Where do you see things break down?

I mean, you touched on this a bit, but, like, most frequently, where are the gaps? Where do you see things kind of, like, break in the chain, like the top reasons you see that royalties don't get paid out? Oh, boy. Um-

I mean, the top, the top reason for the break here is really just communication between teams. Um, I think we... None of us got an instruction manual when we got into this, you know? But most of us, I mean, the MLC exists now, and they have a ton of amazing [00:30:00] resources on their website that really breaks down all this stuff, um, that you can look at.

And, you know, they've got little videos and little synopses. That didn't exist before, so we were all just kinda figuring it out. Um, but the biggest place that I see it break down is really just in communication between teams, between artists and management, between artists and their publisher. And, you know, just we, as artists and as creators, uh, our workflow can often become very atypical.

Um, so it's really difficult for, you know, from the management side and the publish- I can't read anybody's mind. I have no idea what you're up to. I don't know what you're doing. I don't know what's happening. Like, you have to tell me and communicate very clearly, like, "Hey, we did this track. This artist is putting it out," you know, whatever.

We need to have a lot of communication because that honestly is the biggest fatal flaw- Mm-hmm ... is it's me going, seeing a release pop up and going, "I think one of my artists or [00:31:00] writers worked with this," and then hitting them and being like, "Did you work with this?" And they're like, "Oh, yeah, I did," you know?

"And that was eight months ago. I totally forgot about that." And I'm like, "Cool." Yeah. "That's kind of important for me to know that, um, if you wanna get money, which I know you do." Um, 'cause, you know, we kinda all need that. Right. So that's, that's the biggest thing, is just making sure that- You are a team of one until you expand your circle, and that communication is literally critical for everything.

Mm-hmm. Yeah, I mean, you're essentially hiring your team. You're CEO of your, your own startup, and you gotta manage that team. That's right. Um, but also, you know, I think that's a, that's a really good point you made because I think a lot of creators think, "Oh, well, there's all this data now and everything, you know, streams happen and I'm just gonna get paid.

It's just gonna show up. The money's just gonna show up." But you, you still have to take the steps to actually register the music and make sure the metadata's correct and, and you're responsible for, for submitting the metadata. So- Yeah ... whether you have a publisher or [00:32:00] an administrator or a manager doing it for you, you still have to m- make sure that it's being done and that it's done correctly, right?

Yeah, 100%. And I mean, I'm a psycho. I spent... A couple days ago, I updated 13,000 lines of IP chains to fix an issue with Musicmark and, you know, I've- I joke a lot, like, honestly, I'm just more of a detective and a forensic analyst at this point than I am anything else because that's just kinda what it takes.

Not everybody is like that, and actually almost nobody's like that. I don't even wanna be like that. It's just kind of what I have to do right now, and it's important. This whole thing is- it's, like this is a problem that just has to be solved. And, you know, but you, you can... Only you can prevent the forest fires here, all right?

Is, is really what it is. Like, you're... As she said, you're the CEO of your bus- nobody is gonna care about what you're doing more than you do, and so you don't need to understand everything. Like, you don't need to go to the, to the [00:33:00] lengths that, you know, I have gone to and will continue to go to. You just need to develop enough savvy about it to pick the right people.

Like, you need to be a good people picker. You don't need to be a forensic royalty analysis person. You don't need to be a detective. You just need to be able to find people that you go, "I believe in this person. We've got good rapport. We care about this thing, and we're trying to figure it out. We're gonna figure it out."

Um, and you just have to keep doing that. You just keep doing it day in and day out and, you know, every day you'll move a little bit further, and that's- that is the best case scenario that we have right now. Amen. I love that. Um, okay, so let's, um, let's turn this into some action steps. Like, everybody leaves here fired up and, and, and ready to clean up their royalty life.

Um, where do they start? Like, what's crucial step- what are the crucial steps, you know? Like, how do you- I think the organization of all of, of catalog and, and is, is, [00:34:00] like, the most important. How do you keep that organized within your Oxide business? Like, how do you manage the metadata and, and all the splits and do you have a, a mechanism or a method that you can suggest to pe- especially for people who are independent and don't have people handling the administration for them?

Yeah. So you'll hear every publisher, their first question is, "Where's your Schedule A?" Yeah. Right? And they all, they all look a little bit different, but they all have a lot of the key pieces of data in them. And, you know, as an artist, this is a thing that you, you just can't start on it soon enough. And the things that we talked about of, you know, just keep a record of

And it, it's really, it's best to do this a little bit at a time. Um, I have definitely inherited plenty of messes where I've had to be like, "You wrote on 600 songs, huh? And you didn't write any of it down. Sick. I really like that." "So let's start in 2021, and [00:35:00] let's ... What did you do in January?" And then I gotta have phone

You know. So the sooner you can start on getting whatever, uh, I don't know off the top of my head, but, but, you know, if you open your BMI or ASCAP account, whatever it asks for to register a song, just make an Excel sheet with all of those columns, and every time you make a song, just plop it in one of the lines with the associated data.

And just keep track of it. That's the best place to start in, in my opinion. That's the most achievable and the most reasonable. You can do it with Google Sheets or you can do it with Excel. Mm-hmm. Like, there's a bunch of different tools that you can use. But just starting to track and have a full accounting of everything you've done, even if it's imperfect, is going to be so much more helpful when you do get to a point to where somebody takes over administration or wants to figure out where is this thing or where is that thing.

It's like, we at least need to know where to start looking. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And, and AI is a great tool for creating a, a spreadsheet these days. Yeah. You listen, and don't use ChatGPT. It sucks. [00:36:00] Uh, it is so prone to hallucination. If you want to use AI as a database tool, you definitely need to use Claude.

Anthropic is way better with database stuff. Um, and it's actually very simple, and I have used it quite a bit for, you know, messing around with building and, and formatting databases to solve this exact problem that you're asking me about, and it's much more helpful. It understands rules, and this is definitely, like, one of the easiest things it can do, and it can make your life much easier Um, once you have all of that meta- do you have, like, a checklist of the information that you kind of, you know

I mean, 'cause there's a lot of information. Yeah. What, it ... People don't really know what to ask for or what they should- Yeah ... what they need to include. So what's your general checklist of all the things that need to be on, on that spreadsheet? Uh, I mean, it's fairly extensive. It, it really goes back to the information you get from the writing room of just who was there, who wrote, as much information as we can get [00:37:00] about those people as possible.

You're not always gonna end up with their IPIs or whatever, and, you know, not to make it a selfish thing, but really we're, we're only concerned about your share. If you have the information about the other people, that's awesome, and you're making the world a better place, but we really need your information to be precise because you'll be the one signing your deal, and whoever you sign it with only cares about your share.

That's all they're collecting. They're gonna write unknown for everybody else and just kinda let, let God and the MLC sort them out. Um, so, you know, it's really just pairing your writer data, the percent that you get, that date of creation. Having the work tape in there is super helpful for us to track down later if we need to do a comparison if you don't have the final title.

And then if you get the release data, um, which you can find in a variety of places, but if you have the final track title, the artist, and the ISRC code, that goes a really, really long way, um, like I said, for matching the MLC. Mm-hmm. Being able to pair [00:38:00] the ISRC information with the writer information is how their tool works to go, "Okay, we see consumption for this unique ISRC, so we're gonna put it over here.

You get 20% in this, you know, category." And so that's, uh, it's not a lot, really. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I mean, that's, that's the essentials, the skeleton of the, of, of it, right? Um, okay, and then- I don't wanna overburden you with too many- Yeah, yeah. I would love to ask for about- ... 12 other things, but, like, I'm trying to be realistic here.

Um, and then of course making sure everything is registered, all of the, what, what I refer to as the Holy Trinity, but it's your PRO, MLC, SoundExchange. Um, what about ... Uh, uh, I think something else that's important, um, is- Making sure you're maintaining everything, checking the portals, logging into all of your accounts, looking at your, actually looking at your statements and going through them.

Um, can you kind of, in your [00:39:00] world, like talk about how you manage that or how often you're doing that? I mean, because o- when p- you know, I always say audit, but audit isn't a bad word. It's, it's actually something that you should be doing regularly to make sure all your stuff is, you know, up to date. Mm-hmm.

Um, but yeah, talk, walk through like kind of what your, your process is for that or how often you're, um, checking in. I mean, at least, at least a couple of times a week. Um- Oh, wow ... you know, but I mean, for me, there's, uh, there's a lot in the catalog that I manage and- Yeah ... so there's a lot of moving parts and, and we talked a little bit about, you know, just trying to, uh, you know, systems within systems.

So it's very important to be diligent and just kinda check on it and, you know, I know some of you in this room have purchased cryptocurrency before, so however much you look at that, you need to be looking at your songs- ... stuff the same amount, um, because you're actually going to make money off of the songs [00:40:00] eventually.

And sorry. That's the goal anyway, right? I said I was gonna keep commentary to a minimum. That's my bad. Um, I have purchased it before. Some of it went well, some of it went really bad. All right, I'm just gonna put it that way. But, you know, you want, you wanna stay on top of it because the truth is, in this world, you know, the technology that's out here and the way that music is distributed and consumed and accounted and paid is changing rapidly and constantly.

Mm-hmm. And, you know, it feels like not that long ago that, uh, Lars Ulrich from Metallica was just bitching up a storm about, you know, Limewire and Kazaa and all that stuff, and it's... This i- that is just this little baby blip- ... on the screen of what is the current reality now. And when you have this many... I was complaining to Jamie earlier is, you know, I'm distributing all of my songwriter information for Oxide Music through CWR, which is [00:41:00] Common Works Registration, which is an answer to try to create a standardized data set that gets sent everywhere, and that's how it gets registered.

'Cause before that, it was literally some of the worst online portals you've ever seen. I mean, some 2006-looking ass original internet interfaces that couldn't be worse, and you're having to, like, rip random Excel sheets and put stuff in it- Mm ... and upload it and whatev- So the- we're working on fixing that.

But, you know, all these deliveries are still done through FTP, which is basically the backbone of the original internet. Like, I'm gonna call- Mm ... a server, and I'm gonna open up a file, and I'm gonna put a file in that folder, and then their system will pick up that file and ingest it and do some wizardry and then drop an acknowled- it's a nightmare.

And when you have that many systems, I'm sure a lot of you have run into this situation where you've, you've uploaded a track through, you know, your distributor, and for some reason, it, it just doesn't show up on Meta or TikTok, right? And you're, and you go, [00:42:00] "Man, what's going on here?" And then you reach out or you just have to redeliver it, and then boom, there it is.

And it's just, these things happen. Like, sometimes stuff just falls off the wagon. Like, they're, that server was having a bad day. It was having a moment. And, like, your thing just didn't make it. And you did everything right. And so that's why I'm, like, I'm checking this stuff constantly to verify and reverify.

You know, fortunately with the publishing stuff, when things are in, they're in. When it's right and it starts paying, then you probably will never have to deal with it again. Unless something catastrophic happens- Yeah ... and this will be your last concern, right? But, you know, you, you really have to watch it 'cause anything can happen, and this stuff can just disappear or get misattributed or- Yeah

you know. Like you said, how many John Smith writers are there? Like, things do get misattributed on occasion, and you'll have to correct it. It's not often, but, like, you gotta be there to catch it. Or just, like, human error. Yeah. People, you know, like you, you [00:43:00] misspell, you write down something, you know, you're in the room and you write down your co-writer's name, you misspell it, and then you type it in that way.

Or whoever's, you know, i- in- putting the information in on the publishing side, or whoever's handling the admin, they put it in wrong. Like, there's all these little bits and pieces that can go wrong. But, you know, as long as you have the metadata right from the start- Yeah ... then you're gonna avoid all the headache down the road of having to chase after money and figure out what went wrong.

Yep. Which is what ends up happening too much. But I think, you know, like you said, CWR and all these things that, you know, the MLC database, which is really trying to standardize everything and, and, and, you know, put everything in one place so that everybody has the same rights holder information, is, like, kind of a game changer, right?

This, this didn't exist. You used to have to go to all these different portals, and every portal [00:44:00] looked different, like you said, and, and it was just a pain. So now I think we're trying to... Is... We're course correcting, but it's still- Yeah ... it's like you have to, you have to clean up decades and decades of garbage.

When the- Basically ... when the MUSIC Modernization Act passed and they were talking about making the MLC, I remember laughing to myself and going, "Good luck." Yeah. I, I mean- That's gonna be fun ... I think I said the same thing, and now I'm working here, so. Yeah. Which, thank you. I was like, "Well, we'll see what happens."

Yeah. You know? Thank you very much for what you guys are doing. This is definitely a, a, a super righteous crusade. But, like, boy, do you have your work cut out for you. Well, and I think the, the main point that, um, we're essentially trying to drive home here is that in order for this to work, everyone has to participate, right?

Like, it's not just you expect everybody on the business side to make sure everything's handled. You as a creator actually have onus to make sure your [00:45:00] business is handled properly, and that also means communicating the correct information and transparency and all of that. So it works both ways. It does.

Um, we are almost at time, and I wanna make sure that we leave some questions, time for questions. Cool. But, um- Yeah. Let's, let's go there now so that we're not... I want, I always wanna leave plenty of time. So- Yeah ... anybody- Does everyone feel sufficiently waterboarded by this- Yeah ... presentation? I mean, I, that's ki- we, we unloaded a lot, so, um, don't be shy

Hello. Um, I work in pub admin, so I have a kind of a biased question, but it sounds like you do a lot of admin in-house. What can you say about a publisher or an indie artist who is looking at doing it in-house versus an indie admin versus partnering with a major and doing admin through that? [00:46:00] You know, really, I think it just kinda comes down to, at this point, um, one of the pros and cons of the technological situation that we're in is that we have never had more access than ever, and it's growing really rapidly.

But the major issue with that is the environment is brutally complex, and also is, is ... Like, you guys are still catching up to trying to figure out how do we ... The amount of royalties that go unmatched, you know, is, is crazy. So it's ... It is an enormously complex environment, but the tools to go after it are available to just anyone, and hello, it's me.

Um, so I mean, what I would say is I have artists that work with major publishers, that work with indie publishers, and then I obviously do stuff, you know, through Oxide Music, and really the only difference I can discern is who is going to pay attention enough to get this right. Um, I had originally approached larger [00:47:00] publishers who I won't name to see if they wanted to, you know, make a matching set out of my catalog, and they just said they weren't interested.

Um, which I get it. You know, it's, it's, you know, small pickles for them, and honestly, that biz dev call would've cost more than they would've made in the commission in a year probably. So, you know, I don't know what they charge, but I'm just kinda flying off the handle here with that one. But it's just who's actually gonna sit there and figure this out for you?

Um, you know, unlike distribution in the master side with publishing, these rates are statutory. And, you know, the MLC exists, so as long as things get in right, the money gets connected. So I think it's just a matter of do you have a team of people that really believe in you and wanna get it right, and are willing to work on it and work with you and figure out how to make opportunity and get your, get your data lined up and get your royalties flowing?

Then that's your, that's your company

Anybody else? Hi. Uh, I'm wondering, so is this all about the [00:48:00] US royalties, or is there anything else that needs to be done to collect royalties worldwide? Um, the MLC is only for the United States. Um, worldwide is a bit of a challenge, and fortunately for me, I was able to find a really great global partner, uh, in the AMRA, and they kind of deal with all of it.

At, in the beginning, I looked at it and every country has a CMO of their own. They have an MLC-type organization. Um, and if you wanted to do everything direct yourself, then you would need to set up accounts with every single territory that you stream in, and put the same data into there, and then receive, you know, checks and- Yeah

whatever, uh, which would be cool. But yeah, there's ... It's a, it's a ... It's tricky when you get into international. Yeah, I mean, the, the MLC, we're only paying for US streams. Um, but of course, there are songwriters all over the world with [00:49:00] music streaming on US platforms, so we do pay globally, but we are paying for US, um, streaming activity.

US consumption. Yes, US consumption. There you go. And, um, on the performance side, for instance, your, your PRO, they have reciprocal agreements with all of the other international territories, um, to collect on your behalf for performance royalties only, though. So that's covering, you know, television, um, terrestrial radio, you know, live performances, things of that nature.

Um, but yeah, when it, when you go into the, the, m- deep into the weeds and mechanics of some of these international territories and neighboring rights and all that, it becomes really complicated, so we won't get into that tonight because- Good times, though ... because you're all gonna go home in a drunken stupor because you'll be like, "Oh, my God- Yeah, I'm gonna need like four-

I'm, I'm leaving the business" ... five more of these if we start talking about neighboring rights. Uh ... Um, anybody [00:50:00] else?

Front row

Thanks. Um, I was curious about, um, I only know in the vaguest sense, like what the Music Modernization Act did, and like what, what is different from that being passed that was like being missed before? Um, like what is the m- like I understand what is being collected, but what was happening with those before that point?

That's a great question. Yeah, Jamie, what was happening? I, we love that question. Um, so basically the Music Modernization Act was, um, an update to very old antiquated copyright law. So nothing in the existing copyright law reflected the streaming era. Anything- Which was 1976 was the last ... like nothing had been updated.

Yeah. So- Streaming, um- Not great ... became, no, it was terrible. And, [00:51:00] and, you know, the, basically streaming services started popping up and, and becoming the w- main way people consumed music from tw- 2007, basically. So from

2007 to 2020, um, the answer is all of your mechanical royalties that you should have received from streaming were not being paid out unless you were, you had a deal with a major, um, record label or a major publisher. They had sort of direct, um, deals with, with, you know, those respective companies. You still could have slid in Harry Fox if you knew.

Yes, yes. Yeah. But I mean, people aren't, you know- Who did? Yeah. So, um, so that was what they called the black box of royalty money, and it was hundreds of millions of dollars. So that, none of that was getting paid out, so enter the MLC. Um, now all of that money [00:52:00] was redirected, per the MMA, to the MLC, and we are actually going through pha- in phases paying that money out.

So, um, we've paid out over half of it, but of course, we're still trying to locate, we're still trying to find and match, um, a lot of, a lot of the works that are included in that. So, um, eventually we will, um, you know, there's, there, there are typically time limits on that, but because we're new, we've been able to sort of extend it and when we, when we would have to redistribute this, the earnings.

But, um, but the whole point is that you can, if you did have music streaming and you haven't registered with us yet or you think you might be owed money, you can actually use our database to, to figure that out. Um, but more importantly, you can get registered and, um, and collect that money. So it's not lost.

I have a question. Is this going online? Yeah. Okay. I think so. It will go online, [00:53:00] right? Did you say will? Will. Will. This will- It will ... this will be. Okay. Oh, this is going on the internet? We need to edit. We- Okay, cool. Yeah. Okay. I got a question for you. Editing magic. So, uh, do you know how far back the black box goes?

Well, first of all, how many of you have heard that term black box when, as it pertains to royalties? Okay. Are you, do you feel like, by a show of hands, relatively confident that you understand what that is? Okay, a couple. Yeah. Okay. So you guys received a huge chunk of unclaimed black box royalties. Yes. Do you have an approximation of how- It's, yeah

far back it goes? 2007. It goes back to 2007? Yeah, 2007 to 2020. Okay. So-

And we are, we have all, we received all the money. It was 300 and f- I think it ended up being 349 million. Is that right? Is that the right number? 349 million. Yes. I think that's right. That's right. [00:54:00] Um, and so we've, we've paid out half of it, but in, you know, of course, we have to- Mm-hmm ... find all of the rights holders.

So- Okay ... and, and, and to be clear, a lot of, there are a lot of, um, rights holders in there that are earning, that are under a dollar. Yeah. Yep. You know? A, a... that's, that's really a big majority of what's left is that. Um, so yeah, that's- Okay. I, I have another question that maybe may or may not be on the minds of people.

So what is the general threshold for, you know, the expiration of royalties as it pertains to the black box? Like, don't you normally say aft- we can't really guarantee anything past three years? Right. I mean, the, it, it was supposed to be three, and then it was five, and then they just kept pushing it out because we are brand new, and we're- Right

still trying to get the word out, so that's why we've had that flexibility. Okay. Interesting. Um, I think, you know, the, the beauty of where [00:55:00] we're at with MLC is, like, I think we're, you know... And, and why we, we are constantly doing this outreach is because we're building this as we go along. And so, um, you know, it, it truly is, like, a community effort.

You know? We wanna, we wanna rebuild and reshape the ecosystem in the future, and how, how royalties and rights are, are paid out- Mm ... and, and how they're accounted for. Like, we are transforming the business. Yeah. Um, when, when they f- when the MLC was formed, that's, that was the idea. You know, we're not a government agency, but we're overseen by the US Copyright Office.

So, you know, there's, nothing is like- th- written in stone yet. I mean, there, there are things written in the MMA, of course. That's the law. But, um, as we move forward, like for instance, the redistri- the distribution of, of, of the black box monies, we, [00:56:00] we've had flexibility in that because we are still, we're, we're, we're refining things.

We need to find the rights holders and, and, you know, find ways to make sure that we're reaching all the rights holders and educating them, and that they're providing us with all the information we need, and all of that. You know, like using our tools. Yeah. They know how to use the claiming tool and the matching tool, and all these things that we're talking about.

So, um, so that's why it's so important, like we said earlier, for everybody to, like, get involved. Yeah. Cool. I think that, I think that's an important thing, uh, to point out because I definitely hear a lot of artists talk. We- we've all kind of heard about the black box, and a lot of us have heard that, well, anything past three years is just kind of gone.

And, you know, I- I've heard that so much, but I have personally not seen that to be the case. And so I wanted to bring that up to you and to kinda talk about that, that there is hope. Mm-hmm. And it really is, you know ... It's [00:57:00] just so important to get on this sooner than later, even if you think ... I have an artist that signed his first record deal in 2005, was never published ever.

Mm-hmm. And so I've been systematically going back and trying to claim and find and source all these royalties. And y- to your guys' credit, I've seen royalties showing up on the statement that have 2010- Yeah ... on them. Yeah. Um, so there is, there is the ability to go further back. It's really just you gotta, you gotta get after it- Yeah

like today. And well, and to, to add to that, so something important to know is that we will, the plan is to, um, redistribute by market share, um- What's unmatched within the next, oh, within a year from now- Okay ... or in a year from now. Um, so '20... What are we in? We're 2026. By 2027, um, early 2027 is when we will start that [00:58:00] process.

Gotcha. Unless things change, but, you know, this... It's, it's a constantly evolving... It's the Wild West- Yeah ... we're in right now, so. So get steppin', all right? Yeah, exactly. '27, all right? It's the window. Now we- the window's closing. We gotta get after it. Get that money. Yeah, and, and take advantage of... Our, our customer, um, support, our member support team is really incredible, and, like, if you need something, they will get back to you.

They will help you. They will sit on the phone with you for an hour if that's necessary. Um, so don't think that, uh, it, it, your, your inquiry's gonna go un- unresponded to. It will be responded to, and, and you'll get your answer. Um, okay, so let's just close. What are... I guess, you know, I, I like, I like giving people homework.

Um, three things they can do when they leave the room today to, to- To make sure that they're, they're on the right track. Yeah, so three things. [00:59:00] Number one, first and foremost as writers, make sure that your PRO affiliation is all set up. You know, that you have your PRO account, that you have your ASCAP account, you have your BMI account.

Um, and check and make sure that that information is updated. Uh, you would probably not be surprised to know how many artists that I've come into contact with that have had physical checks mailed to an address they lived at six years ago. Uh, so just kinda like do a little perusal, make sure everything is up to date, you know, the tax doc- like, really basic stuff.

Like, just make sure that your account is factually correct about what you're doing and where you are right now. You know, check your catalog. If there's anything missing, you know, start hunting, figure it out. Um, if you do not have a SoundExchange and you are performing on records, you definitely wanna make sure that you have that.

And that, you know, again, there's actually a ton of resources on the MLC about this as well. Um, you know, same thing, the amount of artists I have worked with whose SoundExchange accounts were set up, like, forever ago, and the address is [01:00:00] wrong, and the email address has been closed forever and whatever. Uh, nightmare.

So just, you should be checking these things regularly. And, you know, I know it's kind of a pain, but at least the benefit here is, you know, you might be getting money from it, so there's more of an incentive here than telling, like, your car insurance where you live because they're taking your money. Um, you know, just making sure that your accounts are all in good standing, things are connected correctly, your information is correct, and that when you look in, you know, um, I won't get super into it, but SoundExchange is kind of tricky when it comes to claiming and searching, and things don't just necessarily automatically appear, so there's a little bit of legwork to do there.

Checking to see if anything's missing, and, you know, ask somebody. S- uh, SoundExchange also, their customer service is pretty good, um, so if you have any questions, you can always reach out to them, and they can, you know, they can assist with that, and you should do that. Um, and then finally, if you [01:01:00] are doing your own publishing and you wanna be claiming your mechanicals here, then you will want to talk to the wonderful member services people at the MLC to get your account set up there and to start figuring out how to match that information from your PRO over to them to make sure you're getting all of the, all of the wonderful nickels and dimes that are out there.

Amazing. I don't even have to say anything after that. You said everything I was gonna say. Um, so yeah, make sure if you're independent, don't have a s- a publisher, don't have a, a administrator, please, please, please sign up with the MLC if you haven't already, and get that money. And I think that's it. Go forth and claim your, claim your money.

Get that money. Thank you, Andrew. Thank you, Tons. Thank you all for being here. Thanks so much for listening to Taking Care of Your Music Business. Don't forget, you can watch full video episodes on our YouTube channel and make sure to [01:02:00] subscribe so you never miss an episode.